.
More proof that Abhisit offers nothing towards a better Thailand - he's reaching into an empty well when all he can come up with is the same old 'reds under the bed' type scaremongering.
Abhisit had a choice - he could really have tried to make Thailand a more inclusive society, worked towards more equality, fairness and justice, but he chose the exact opposite route - find scapegoats, jail dissidents, limit the free flow of information, propagandise and scare the rest into compliance.
If he really was about reconciliation and helping move Thailand forward, instead of giving credence to plots created in the imagination of ASTV/The Manager fiction writers and using repression to cow the populace into submission, wouldn't he be pushing for an opening up of opportunities for discussion and analysis of the thai political system, including the role of the monarchy, and trying to have the LM laws relaxed so that free and open discussion can take place?
It's becoming much clearer that people like Abhisit, Sansern, Prayuth (and others who shall remain unnamed) are the real terrorists in Thailand.
.
39 comments:
He tried to have a discussion, reds refused and insisted only on house dissolution.
Then they started bombing and killing people.
Then you say Abhisit is a terrorist.
As for anti-monarchy plot and reds - are you denying the connections
the CRES has presented? On what grounds?
And where does the illusion that red leadership will openly talk about it come from?
Wholst agreeing in I disagree with this excerpt:
"Abhisit had a choice - he could really have tried to make Thailand a more inclusive society, worked towards more equality, fairness and justice, but he chose the exact opposite route - find scapegoats, jail dissidents, limit the free flow of information, propagandise and scare the rest into compliance."
It seems clear to me that Abhisit only had the choice of doing what he was told, and that was to do whatever was necessary to ensure the continuation of the status quo.
In doing so he has systematically used the same policies he derided a few years ago and done a 180 degree flip-flop on the statements he made against the government when PAD was throwing their trick-or-treat party at Government House and the Airport.
Abhisit is widely known for being the poodle of the Palace and its associated people (Prem, Anupong, PAD etc), so in reality he had no choices but to dance how and when his puppet-masters desired. His ass has been comprehensively for sale to anyone who cared to pay.
Yes, he is unfit to lead any country (or even my golf club for that matter), but he had no choices. He grabbed the only opportunity he ever had for power, or was ever likely to get, and is now looking like a cheap and grubby opportunist.
I have no sympathy for him or how history will remember him, he is a failed prime minister of a country he has led to failed status.
Som nam na.
@StanG:
"Then they started bombing and killing people."
Scurrilous. The bulk of opinion is that there is no evidence whatever for this. Of course you probably know better...
I don't know Stan, self-flaggellation went out of fashion such a long time ago, why do you keep doing this to yourself? Surely there must be some degree of ridicule you can be exposed to which will lead you to ask why nobody takes you seriously? You've been kicked from asshole to breakfast time on just about every blog in Christendom and yet somehow you don't seem to understand that your views are considered unsupported (and probably unsupportable) and ecccentric at best, and quite potty at worst.
C'mon Stan, you can tell me, who's paying you to give yourself this much embarrassment? How much?
StanG: Please show me when Abhisit really tried a house dissolution?
Reds always would have accepted 3 months election, and still would - is Abhisit so useless that he could not organise it within that time frame?
(I bet a Thaksin could:)
You can carry on in your dream world - I suppose you also believe Abhisit has been all about reconcilation ever since he got to power? (he talked about it, Abhisit is a nice 'educated' man, so it must be true, right?)
Bangkok Pundit has a picture of the CRES 'plot' mud map which came from ASTV/Manager - I'm surprised Paul Handley, the FCCT board and Jonathan Head are not on it - and what about Aung San Suu Kyi?
(what do I have to do to make the list?:)
I stand by my statement that Abhisit is a terrorist - he terrorizes the Thai people!
I agree that Abhisit is just trying to please the people who put him in power. He's all hat and no cattle when it comes to leadership. And now he's had a haircut and the hat has slipped down over his ears and obscured his vision completely. Abhisit's center of gravity is England. He's dealing with a Thailand he read about in history class.
And the working of wills of the people who put Abhisit in power may be much worse than we imagined, Abhisit or no Abhisit.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
' In an effort to outline the script for the end of at least this round of Thailand’s protracted political conflict, the Queen’s protégé Gen Anupong was appearing on a talk show with the country’s Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. During the appearance, the 45-year-old premier made clear that he is betting on the nationalist, royalist, and putatively moderate voices which have emerged spontaneously among Thai netizens to challenge call for a dissolution of parliament made by the pro-Thaksin United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) and its demonstrators. To support these voices, his government also seems to have used the tools of the state to mobilize “followers” and promote the emergence of groups of “multi-coloured shirts” in more than 20 provinces. '
"Spontaneously". Right. I wonder if that was the source of your recent "night visitors" Hobby? It's usually nice and quiet around here :)
I have no idea of the identity of or credence to be given "Freelander", the author of the article excerpted above.
I assure you that little snippet is nothing at all compared to the other assertions made therein.
Thanks JFL - That article is a must read IMO.
It's clear Abhisit is no democracy idealist, but from where I'm sitting it doesn't even look like he has tried.
(probably realized his soul was already sold the day he accepted the Anupong/Newin deal)
I'm not sure what you mean about the 'night visitors', but I expect its probably best left off this forum - you know how to contact me.
"Please show me when Abhisit really tried a house dissolution?"
Thailand's problems go far beyond the house dissolution, and Abhisit wanted to talk about it but reds stonewalled all discussion about "democracy".
Last year, after April riots, Abhisit pushed for constitution reform, the red main gripe then, he went against his own party and his supporters wishes. Reds stonewalled that, too.
You are either a very slow learner StanG, or you just don't want to learn.
I'll spell it out for you (again):
Whenever Abhisit SAYS he will do something (especially something that sounds reasonable), what he actually DOES will be completely different.
His record is there for all to see.
btw, Why are you wasting time with me - Abhisit/Sanserm/ASTV have kindly provided you with a conspiracy map so you can see where your attentions need to be concentrated (or are you working off the old Chirmsak/Prem guide book?:)
" . ..Why are you wasting time with me - Abhisit/Sanserm/ASTV have kindly provided you with a conspiracy map " Hobby-2-StanG
"I'd say still a tortured idealist, open to enlightenment . ." Hobby-2-VichaiN
"It's becoming much clearer that people like Abhisit, Sansern, Prayuth (and others who shall remain unnamed) are the real terrorists in Thailand. . . " Hobby-2-d-world
Vichai: Its a polite way to tell StanG where to go, as I don't see much hope of him enlightening me, nor me enlightening him.
I am, however, open to your attempts to enlighten me - you can start by explaining why Abhisit has dramatically upped the stakes with his terrorism talk, now linked to a resurrected Finland Plot.
(remember, this is a PM, a supposed statesman, making these accusations, not an opposition leader, media mogul come protest leader, or mere blogger)
Hobby - I am puzzled you are upset because PM Abhisit has (1) upped the stakes . . . with his (2) terrorism talk and (3) a conspiracy???
My opinion:
a) PM upping the stakes - I agree w/ PM Abhisit it should be done period! All other previous government attempts to seriously negotiate was met with more M79 and bombing attacks by violent Red sympathizers. The Reds were violently upping the stakes long before today's Abhisit 'upping'.
b) There are terrorists among the Reds - I suspect as much, according to circumstances of Red behavior, propaganda and rhetorics.
c) Conspiracy - Didn't I just write my OWN conspiracy spin at your site? Which was a wild guess I admit. On the government's conspiracy charges ... I sincerely do not know. Maybe a Shawn Crispin take on this conspiracy theme at AsiaTimes (in progress???) could be ... enlightening?
BTW if PM Abhisit is not fit to lead Thailand during, or out of, this crisis, who in your opinion should?
VichaiN: If you are serious with those last responses, I might be giving you the same advice I gave StanG.
Abhisit has never been serious about reconciliation - it's not his brief (remember who got him into the job). I was a fool to ever think he was genuine.
Crispin is Ok to read, but seems to be pushing an agenda IMO - he's treading a fine line trying to be sympathetic to the yellows, and still keep his credibility intact - will be interesting to see if he can do it.
Hobby,
Of course I am serious. Everything's a matter of opinion of course... and my opinion stands.
And you'll probably not take my advice, but engaging StanG could be very technically enlightening. StanG's cryptic, direct and this is the important part, very 'technical' in his arguments.
Arguing on moral grounds are 'oh' (reference: Pahurad street slang in my post) but tediously boring and will get nowhere (good consequence) or worse (like what's
going on at Rajaprasong right now.
Arguing on technical merits ... that is more important ... like a lawyer ... that is the civilized way!
(I am NOT a lawyer btw, I wish I was).
Bye anyway ... you're very clear I am no longer invited, I won't return.
How much they pay you Stan G? You seems to have arrived in Thailand after the Democrat Party has risen to power.
VichaiN: 'Technical' is obviously a code word for 'deceitful' when referring to StanG continually saying Abhisit pushed for reconciliation/constitutional reform/negotiation etc - that he was not genuine is clear for all to see.
(and, yes, those who still cannot see that had best stay away from here as they will be wasting their time, and mine)
I wouldn't worry, they aren't going elsewhere because they feel rejected, feeling rejected is an acceptable part of what they are doing. They're going elsewhere because its obvious that nobody here believes that what they say is even potentially sensible any more.
They'll either return under another name or find other arena in which to peddle their dubious propaganda.
Personally I think a good deal of effort was necessary in order to spin their spins but the end result was a bit counter-productive for them except that it might have told a few folk what they wanted to hear.
The whole "I think Abhisit is a jolly decent fellow" movement in the blogosphere has run out of puff anyway - maintaining an idiocy like that requires people to be prepared to look like idiots and even Stan and Vichai N have limits I suppose.
Stan became completely ridiculous in the end and Vichai N became almost completely incoherent. I hope they're both OK.
i still want Vichai to be here.This is not my blog but i hope he comes back.
sorry, it's the host who decides. simply wanna express opinion. this is after all not my blog.
Joy: I only said those who still think Abhisit genuinely pushed for reconciliation/constitutional reform/negotiation had best stay away from here, as they will be wasting their time, and mine.
Abhisit should be doing all he can to avoid this and (BE WARNED IT'S GRAPHIC) this.
But rather than tryiing to avoid it, Abhisit seems intent on bringing it on (by his insistence at delaying elections, and now his 'save the monarchy' scaremongering).
It could easily be stopped - simply dissolve the parliament & have an election within 3 months.
That's fair - it gives the whole country a chance to have their say - a responsible PM should be doing whatever he can to avoid the type of bloodshed that thai/humans are capable of - a real statesman would not be ramping things up, instead he would be trying to convince the PAD (& others of that ilk) to just allow an election, and to accept the will of the people.
@Joy:
Freedom of thought and speech is a fundamental requirement of intelligent people. Hobby is an intelligent people and I therefore doubt he would ban or eject anyone for having views different to his own. I tend to be outspoken and I strive for clarity of thought; sometimes this brings me to a different opinion to others yet I haven't been asked to leave. Not yet anyway - even though my spalling appears to be sispect sometimes because I have notepad keys and fat fingers...
Discouraging low-quality spam might be diferent though and let's be honest, neither Stan nor Vichai was producing more than dogma claptrap.
Many blogs about Thailand have become safe or trite: BP has become safe while he further builds his reputation. Thaicrisis has become trite since he was blocked, PPT is good value but comments are not allowed. Prachathai is always goodvalue but it has had to be safer since the bloggers unfortunate misunderstanding with the moronic Thai government..
On balance, Hobby's is the best and most lively at the moment I think, with the possible exception of New Mandala, which has wider interests than just Thailand.
Just 2-bob's worth and none of my business really...
Thanks, Anonymous, but your second last sentence might just be a little over the top (sorry to say:)
btw, grammar nazi's are about the only people not welcome here.
i have nothing to say much really. I'm just an ordinary person , doesn't know that much abt Thai politics or ideologies like you guys, and i don't have sustained interest in any particular issues. I just like reading abt different opinions: that's why i wished Vichai comes back bec to me i still think his arguments are interesting.Of course, not being an expert on politics, i can't judge anyone's ideas as being crap.Most people i know at work are mostly self-righteous, thinking their ideas are the best. Maybe i'm sick of this kind of people and just prefer those who can be more open-minded.
having said that, after all i'm just a random visitor , and perhaps i'm more concerned abt human feelings than politics, so my view does not count anyway , so it's better be dismissed. This is a political blog, nothing to do with being a real person.Exchange of ideas are most important here. sorry for off-topic comments.
Joy: This blog is only 'political' because Thailand is in political turmoil - I would love for things to settle down (in a meaningful, not repressive way) and then I could just go back to posting music clips, and discussing the meaning of life:)
Regarding your own apparent political apathy, I have difficulty understanding how a 'thinking' person could do that in the current Thailand, but I can well understand why a thai might like to 'sit on the fence'.
wow! comment moderation?
You can define me in whatever way you like. I'm definitely not yellow nor red (like those who join the rallies), and i know myself i'm too much a coward to suffer physical pain for one's political belief
I haven't closed myself off from what's going on around me. If i have time, i read abt what;s going on in relation to Thai politics.
Hobby, what do you think about the fact that some of these Red terrorists were caught carrying M79s? Is that a part of their peaceful strategy in their fight for democracy? Do you agree with this kind of behaviour? I will welcome your answer but if you don't respond I will assume that you will never condem their actions, regardless of how lawless and undemocratic they are.
Oneditorial: I am not aware of any of the current red leaders claiming armed terrorists to be part of their movement, but if they are then, yes, I condemn that - just like I condemn violence (other than self defence) used by any group or government, and especially when a non-violent solution is readily available to alleviate the pressure built up from the military coup - a desecrating event that has no place in any democracy!
What about the hospital raid, do you condemn that? And this time it's clear that it was ordered by the red shirts because on the same evening prior to the raid, Jatuporn held a briefing with Payap and Dr. Weng sitting besides him and ordered Payap to raid the hospital. This was recorded and aired on Thai TV. see this:
Not sure why people keep bringing up the issue of a few Chula doctors having refused some time back ago to treat police in uniform (these handful of doctors asked the police change into plain clothes first before getting treatment), since the people mainly suffered by the red shirt raid are the patients.
Also the red leadership claiming that Payap leading the raid was done without consent of the red leaders is clearly untrue since on that evening prior to the incursion, Jatuporn gave a press briefing with Payap and Weng sitting besides him, and during that press briefing he ordered Payap to raid the hospital. This was recorded by the media, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA1dFX8-ak
sorry the above post should read as follows:
What about the hospital raid, do you condemn that? And this time it's clear that it was ordered by the red shirts because on the same evening prior to the raid, Jatuporn held a briefing with Payap and Dr. Weng sitting besides him and ordered Payap to raid the hospital. This was recorded and aired on Thai TV. see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA1dFX8-ak
The inspection of Chula hospital should have been done differently, but IMO it was an absolute necessity.
See here for some of the reasons why.
In addition to being a possible launching site for the grenades, I also recall rumours over the last few weeks that a whole floor of Chula hospital was occupied by soldiers.
That Chula has been a 'political' hospital is well documented, and has been further borne out by the way the inspection incident has been milked by them and the government - it looks to me like they are more concerned with scoring political points than saving lives!
I should add that the evacuation of patients from the hospital was underway before the reds 'inspection', and would it be beyong the realms of imagination that the relocation could have been planned to enable the military to use the strategically located hospital during a crackdown - who knows?
(sadly, nothing surprises me in Thailand)
the link provided by you to the Bkk post article only shows that the innocent patients have been suffering from the reds illegal occupation and activities at the area of the hospital for a long time.
enough already i say!
Here's another link for you.
I agree - enough already!
(of politicizing the sick)
btw, Anonymous posters please include a tag of some sort so you can be distinguished from each other - thanks.
"btw, Anonymous posters please include a tag of some sort so you can be distinguished from each other - thanks."
Roger, wilco. I am not the poster about the hospital.
Anonymous Hieronymous
See the news about the evacuation incident from CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/04/30/damon.thailand.hospital.stormed.cnn
Vichai N said: " BTW if PM Abhisit is not fit to lead Thailand during, or out of, this crisis, who in your opinion should?"
"If Hitler was not fit to lead Germany during the crisis - WWII - who should?"
The point is Hitler was not fit to lead Germany.
thanks for directing me to an account of events provided by anonymous source and published on a pro-red website... luckily the foreign media has this time not fallen victim to red propaganda
Oneditorial: Of course I sympathize with patients being pawns in a political battle, but that CNN clip was just a 'puff' piece designed to appeal to emotions - tabloid TV is well known for that stuff.
The fact is the relocation of patients started BEFORE the reds inspection/raid.
You have not proven that soldiers were not using the hospital (and possibly planning to occupy it as a staging post for a crackdown), nor have you disproven the the grenades were fired from there, nor that there are yellow spin doctors amongst the senior staff who had politicized the sick long before the reds came to inspect for soldiers.
Like the nurses said ALL SIDES should leave the sick out of their political squabbles.
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