Thursday, April 14, 2011

Monarchism, Royalism, Religion?

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You choose which definition is closest to what Thai Royalism has become:
Monarchism

Royalism


Religion




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16 comments:

john francis lee said...

They're singing 'in tongues'? Music is charming too... In this case I'd say the post is the antidote to the 'music' :)

I find the comparison of the Sacerdotal-political 'elite' in Bangkok with religious fundamentalists... be they Jewish, Xtian, or Muslim... fruitful.

Their idea is to kidnap a 'higher power', one of unimpeachable 'authority', put their words in his/her/its mouth, and then imprison/torture/execute their enemies for not agreeing with their words, cast by ventriloquism, into their dummy prop... for that's what their king/god/otherwise unimpeachable authority becomes as the result of their exercise. A palladium, Benedict Anderson has remarked - a lifeless, sacred symbol.

Once I see the mechanism here, at the fringes, it is in fact difficult for me to keep the unreality uncovered by that insight from informing my view of the whole religious-magic exercise.

So the fundamentalist Jews, Xtians. Muslims - and I guess we might call the monarchists would-be 'Buddhist fundamentalists' - end up destroying the power of their 'omnipotent' idol in the process of trying to using that power to smite their foes.

Going for the short-term they destroy whatever long-term beneficial effects their chosen 'devotional' object may have possessed.

Nice to see a little activity around the place. It'd be good if you could post enough to work the word 'fucking' off your front page :) But that's just me and I am making no demands, just happy to see you back.

john francis lee said...

They're singing 'in tongues'? Music is charming too... In this case I'd say the post is the antidote to the 'music' :)

I find the comparison of the Sacerdotal-political 'elite' in Bangkok with religious fundamentalists... be they Jewish, Xtian, or Muslim... fruitful.

Their idea is to kidnap a 'higher power', one of unimpeachable 'authority', put their words in his/her/its mouth, and then imprison/torture/execute their enemies for not agreeing with their words, cast by ventriloquism, into their dummy prop... for that's what their king/god/otherwise unimpeachable authority becomes as the result of their exercise. A palladium, Benedict Anderson has remarked - a lifeless, sacred symbol.

Once I see the mechanism here, at the fringes, it is in fact difficult for me to keep the unreality uncovered by that insight from informing my view of the whole religious-magic exercise.

So the fundamentalist Jews, Xtians. Muslims - and I guess we might call the monarchists would-be 'Buddhist fundamentalists' - end up destroying the power of their 'omnipotent' idol in the process of trying to using that power to smite their foes.

Going for the short-term they destroy whatever long-term beneficial effects their chosen 'devotional' object may have possessed.

Nice to see a little activity around the place. It'd be good if you could post enough to work the word 'fucking' off your front page :) But that's just me and I am making no demands, just happy to see you back.

Hobby said...

Thanks, not sure I can move the offensive word down very quickly, but I'll try to remember to edit it next time I log in.
(by the way F**KING Google/Blogger didn't like your comment again and I had to manually post it - fingers crossed that it stays there, as they have been know to disappear even after they appear)

john francis lee said...

There aren't even any links in this post! I guess that google has decided that the person who posts as john francis lee is not welcome on their network.

The idea that they do not put to use all the data they develop about their 'customers'... that'd be the population of planet earth, and beyond... always did beggar my belief.

No great loss if they disappear it. Not to me or to you... but a great loss of faith for 'the internet'.

Google controls so much of it!

Hobby said...

Wow - thats the first time in a long while that one of your comments actually appeared without my intervention.

I agree about Google, but I think things will be much worse if the Zuckerberg/Facebook crew achieve the world domination they are aiming for.

john francis lee said...

They are all one to me as far as their Mr Hyde aspects go... at least Google has Dr Jekyll on the day-shift. The other two are Hyde-bound. And they've all assumed the debt of Doktor Faustus.

The internet is like energy generation. There is no need for a centralized distribution system. Unless you are the rentier in the middle. And the centralization of both leaves us humans dependent from the resultant grids of distribution rather than the spinners and masters of our own self-centered webs.

I saw that Google is going to hand over $USD186 million for a centralized solar development, to feed the grid, rather than to fund distributed photosynthetic processes, organic or inorganic. The same is true of their web indexes, you can only find what they index. They don't do p2p.

Google is above all a gigantic corporation, a body snatcher... croaking, as they all do in the shop of horrors, "feed me". I'll try a link

http://youtu.be/BGRN39oifsE

it's part of the google "family".

Hobby said...

Nice clip - makes me want to watch the movie after ignoring it in the past.

No intervention required - maybe they are backing off now they know you are on to them:)

john francis lee said...

Nice clip, yeah... can't say that its made me want to see the whole movie, though :)

But that's the portrait of the gmail.com user in my view... out for other hapless humans to feed to his/her man-/woman-eating plant :

http://www.robinlea.com/pub/ya-te-veo-google.html

john francis lee said...

Sometime back, while extolling the virtues of the traditional, sticky-rice eating, matrilineal village way of life as an alternative to deracinated, globalist consumerism, I called attention to 'The Thai Village Economy in the Past' by Chatthip Nartsupha, as translated by Pasuk and Chris Baker. You pointed out that Chattip had been criticized for his nationalism. At the time I didn't find such criticism in English... I didn't look very hard.

I recently found a paper by Thongchai Winichakul entitled 'Nationalism and the Radical Intelligentsia in Thailand', published in 2008. You can find it here :

http://robinlea.com/pub/Nationalism-and-the-Radical-Intelligentsia-in-Thailand.pdf

So perhaps 'Nationalism', ought to be added to your triad, specifically Thongchai's 'royalist-nationalism' in this case, although Thongchai's paper cited above deals with 'Thai' racial nationalism which he imputes to Chattip.

Nationalism is always a problem, isn't it?

I don't see any reason to attach it to the traditional, matrilineal way of life in Thailand - Lua, Tai and otherwise - which certainly preceded any of the 'nations' present in contemporary Southeast Asia. Nor am I nostalgic for some imagined 'golden age' in the past. I simply think that the way life is lived in the West, and now in the cities globally, has no future. I'd like to be able to imagine a future, and am willing to backtrack far enough to pick up a trail that reaches forward to it.

Hobby said...

In my simpleton view of the world, Nationalism just fits into one of the other core causes of all our problems.

To me the causes are clear:
- Fear
- Hatred
- Greed
- Ignorance (including wilfull ignorance cause by the above three)

The solutions are equally obvious:
- Understanding
- Fairness
- Love

It's not rocket science, I'm no genius - the causes and solutions have been known for centuries.

You tell me - should I be a pessimist or an optimist?

Actually, I already know the answer, because it's also obvious, as you pointed out in one of your early blogs - there is no point to being a pessimist.
(and unfortunately, that's about the only reason I can see why I should be an optimist, as all other reasoning leads me back to pessimism)

Please don't get me wrong (again:) - you are not the cause of my pessimism/depression (and the fact that you and other wise men continue to blog and comment is cause for me to add a glimmer of hope to my realism:)

john francis lee said...

Martin Luther King Jr he ain't, but he's still talkin' the talk... and walkin' the walk.

You can find him at

http://robinlea.com/pub/ThrowOutTheMoneyChangers.html

You can read it to yourself, using your best MLKjr or Cornel West voice, as I do.

Which paragraph describes Thailand to a 'T' as well as the US?

Hobby said...

I'd say paragraph 1 for Thailand and paragraph 2 for USA, but it's a great speech that applies the world over - Thanks.

john francis lee said...

I thought it was this one which described both :

http://www.robinlea.com/wordpress/2011/04/19/there-are-no-structures-or-institutions-left-that-have-not-been-contaminated-or-destroyed/

john francis lee said...

I thought it was this one which described both :
http://www.robinlea.com/wordpress/2011/04/19/there-are-no-structures-or-institutions-left-that-have-not-been-contaminated-or-destroyed/

john francis lee said...

Obama heightens danger of war in Asia
https://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/nov2011/pers-n19.shtml

I wonder what your thoughts are on this 'revolting development'?

Sorry to be 'off topic'... but it's been awhile since you've posted.

Hobby said...

Thanks for asking - I'll comment over at your blog